The Grateful for Hospitality Podcast features candid conversations with founders, operators, and experts shaping the sector. Practical insights, honest stories and ideas to make you think.
Watch Episode 5.
Episode Summary
From pulling pints on commission in a Greek bar to holding her own pub licence at 25, Jo Harley has lived every rung of hospitality – and since 2001 she’s been helping the industry keep its best people. In this episode, Jo and Mason get into why retention is still broken in 2026: engagement scores that don’t predict anything, managers who “don’t have time” to talk to their teams, and recognition schemes nobody uses. Jo shares the five things people actually want from work, why embedding beats engagement, and the client data showing career conversations made staff six times less likely to leave. Straight talk, hard numbers, and a proper dose of hospitality heart.
About the Guest
Jo Harley is the founder of Korero, a tech platform that helps leaders at every level have great career conversations with their people. Her hospitality roots run deep – she held her own pub licence at 25, running the King of Wessex in Basingstoke, before moving into sales and marketing at Bacardi Martini during the Bacardi Breezer boom. Since 2001 she’s been helping organisations retain their talented people, and Korero runs the technology behind Best Places to Work in Hospitality.
Key Topics Covered
- Why your engagement score won’t save your retention rate – and what the Pineapple Report data really shows
- The five things your team actually wants from work – and where money really sits on the list
- How to make performance conversations non-personal, so new managers stop dodging them
- The first-six-months check-in structure that matters even more under the new Employment Rights Act
- Recognition that actually lands – individualised, peer-led, and chosen by your team, not head office
What We Discussed
- [1] Introduction – Jo’s journey from Loughborough and a summer working Greek bars to walking into a Camberley pub for a job
- [2] Getting her own licence at 25 – running the King of Wessex in Basingstoke, living in, and the 100 Club of remembering every regular’s drink
- [3] Bacardi Martini in the Breezer heyday – great fun, but no one invested in her progression
- [4] The job ad in the back of Caterer Magazine that, in 2001, started a career helping businesses retain their talented people
- [5] What Korero does – career conversations for leaders at every level
- [6] Not all retention is good – the shift back to an employer’s market and managed vs unmanaged attrition
- [7] Engagement vs embedding – why a happy survey score doesn’t mean people will stay
- [8] The five things people want from work – and why pay accuracy and transparency are the non-negotiable foundation
- [9] Why managers say they “don’t have time” – and why people-first culture has to come from the top
- [10] Consequences and expectation setting – defining what good looks like so conversations stay non-personal
- [11] Honest hiring – the Five Guys employer brand video and screening people out before they join
- [12] Check-ins at weeks 1, 4, 8, 12 and 20 – the first six months, fail fast, and the Employment Rights Act
- [13] Coaching managers to have better conversations – Korero’s new in-platform coach
- [14] The client data – staff who had career conversations were six times less likely to leave
- [15] Recognition in 2026 – peer recognition, values cards, and why top-down perks like discounted golf fall flat
- [16] Should reward link to performance? Fairness, transparency and being ready for it
- [17] Closing the gap between the best and the rest – talk to your people, treat them as individuals
- [18] What Jo is grateful for – the partnerships and people that surround the industry
Key Quotes
“People need to come to work to do a good job. And I think most people do want to do a good job. I think where organisations fall down is that they don’t know what good looks like.” – Jo Harley
“There’s no correlation between an engagement score and retention.” – Jo Harley
“It takes quite a strong leader to sort of say, ‘Yeah, we are a people-first culture,’ hand on heart, and actually mean it.” – Jo Harley
“If your culture is the difference between the behaviours you reward and the behaviours you tolerate, then you have to understand what those behaviours are.” – Jo Harley
Key Takeaways
- Measure embedding, not just engagement. Surveys are a temperature check – belonging, fit and connection are what actually keep people. Ask what someone would be sacrificing if they left.
- Get the basics right first. Accurate, on-time, transparent pay is the foundation – nothing else you do about culture works until people understand exactly what the deal is.
- Make career conversations regular and recorded. Ditch the annual appraisal – structured check-ins at weeks 1, 4, 8, 12 and 20, then ongoing, and record them so you can talent-map and succession-plan properly.
- Define what good looks like. Clear expectations from before the interview onwards make performance conversations black and white – did it happen or not – instead of personal.
- Ask your people how they want to be recognised. One restaurant holds a huge range of demographics – individualise recognition rather than pushing the same top-down perk at everyone.
Keywords
Grateful Hospitality Podcast, Grateful net, episode 5, Korero, hospitality, retention, engagement, embedding, employees, workforce, careers, progression, development, leadership, management, coaching, recognition, rewards, performance, conversations, culture, belonging, motivation, onboarding, check-ins, recruitment, hiring, attrition, turnover, succession, talent, transparency, payroll, pay, tronc, fairness, expectations, managers, training, technology
